GLR September-October 2024

BLaB: He just messaged me on In stagram with his new boyfriend. It made me think how much I loved shooting Hustler White in L.A. and L.A. Zombie —Tony had a cameo in that one, as a homeless person. I’d love to work with him again. I’ll see what I can come up with. PT: Hustler White is very Warholian. Tony Ward reminds me of Andy War hol’s “It boy,” Joe Dallesandro. BLaB: I just interviewed Joe for In terview magazine. PT: I was reading the passage in your Dallesandro interview where you asked him about writing a part for him. Maybe you could put Joe Dalle sandro and Tony Ward together.

A scene from The Visitor . Courtesy of Berlinale.

BLaB: That’s a great idea. It was discussed back in the day. When Hustler White came out, some people tried to think about projects for them. In my interview, Joe was talking about his crazy childhood. His mother was a car thief, and with all the crime going on and rough times—he and Tony have been through the mill. They’ve been through so many crazy experi ences, but have both remained these very centered, sweet kind of men. I like the idea that these are tough guys who still have hearts of gold and are just salt-of-the-earth characters. PT: You recently directed a remake of Pasolini’s 1968 film Teo rema titled The Visitor (2024). Why a remake of the Pasolini film? BLaB: I’m interested in the basic narrative, an archetypical Searchers narrative that Schrader and Scorsese are obsessed with—Fassbinder and John Houston, too. Loner characters where a girl or a vulnerable person is kidnapped, and they must go on a journey to save this innocent person who’s been taken by a kind of savage element. In The Visitor , the family is taken over by an outsider, coded as a kind of hustler. The interloper descends on the family unit and ends up fucking them all and somehow transforming them. The Visitor is a political allegory. I’m intrigued by this disruption of the nuclear family by an out sider character who’s queer. PT: In Hustler White , L.A. Zombie , and The Visitor , it seems people are always popping out of suitcases. What’s the sym bolism here? BLaB: The suitcase is kind of the key. It’s the part standing in for the whole; it’s symbolic of all refugees. Just this basic suitcase—somebody who’s been exiled or who’s been forced to leave their country, and they’ve arrived. The suitcase is used by all travelers who are between places. It’s a symbol of never being at home or in any one place, constantly being forced to leave your home and find a new one. In Hustler White , it’s a symbol of death. The hustler gets chopped up and ends up in a suitcase. It represents the transition from life to death. I’ve lived my whole life making movies, spending so much time in hotel rooms, traveling, and never really

asphyxiation—all he really wants is a kiss. A French critic who reviewed Hustler White wrote: “In a world that’s character ized by extreme fetish, Sadomasochism, and violence, the last taboo is tenderness.” PT: Queer curator Ruben Esparza and I were talking about all the movies you’ve shot here in Los Angeles. What’s the attrac tion to L.A.? BLaB: Well, it’s really an old-school gay thing. My parents were farmers with only a grade-school education, but they loved Hollywood cinema, which made them much more liberal and sophisticated than they otherwise would have been. We lived on this isolated farm. Their love of Hollywood movies rubbed off on me. That was my escape. Watching the “Late Late Show” was my window on the world. It sophisticated me. I was a baby gay; I got my queer education from watching Whatever Hap pened to Baby Jane , Sunset Boulevard , and All About Eve .My identification with these tortured female stars was my emotional outlet. I had to repress my sexuality for a long time, until I moved to the city. PT: Tony Ward [the star of Hustler White ] wanted me to ask if you would please put him in a new film. He also wanted to know when you’re coming back to L.A. to shoot again, maybe “Hustler White, Part Two”?

TheG & LR

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